[RESOLVED] Bad delay values for audio demuxed from bluray with a range set

[Guest]

If I may, another approach
Index and demux from very beginning (start 0)
Do what has to be done (in my case encode)
Remux
Then use MKVToolNix to trim the beginning part
Only needs one quick index (on encoded file, which is quick) to obtain start point for range.

I am good with letting go of delay reporting for transport streams

P.S.
Delay reporting works great for MKV since that is one "big" file, no surprises

[admin]

Yes, that can be an alternative as long as you know that your file begins with 0 delay. Not everything does.

[admin]

Delay reporting works great for MKV since that is one "big" file, no surprises

Yes, but it's valid only if the MKV file is in sync.

I'm probably going to ditch delay reporting for everything. I want people to use perceptual alignment, not a hacky heuristic with possibly invalid assumptions and prerequisites. Then I can't be blamed for audio desyncs.

[Guest]

Good point
But at the beginning delay reporting is good, no range to bring up the weird stuff
Maybe leave delay reporting in with a note about it in the docs
EDIT
Just read your last post
Yeah, why shoot yourself in the foot?

[admin]

Some files do not start with 0 delay! For example, off-air TS captures, or just trimmed TS files.

Someone will have to make a strong case to get me to keep any delay reporting at all. In the modern world there are just too many ways to go wrong with the old DVD-era heuristic. And what developer wouldn't want to simplify his code?

[Guest]

Don't think this is a strong case but MKV delay reporting has worked perfectly fine so far
Either way. I support your decision

[admin]

Possibly, but of what use is it?

[Guest]

Until now I extract the mpls as a MKV then trim and index, and demux
Possible future, index and demux and at end remux to MKV and use DGIndexNV to give me the start/end points for trimming
Not a strong argument

[admin]

OK, I see.

With the recent addition of PGS demuxing, I am trying to eliminate the need for going through MakeMKV, but I acknowledge that many people use it, especially as it is (currently) a free solution for ripping.

I'll think through all the ramifications before deciding. Thanks for your valuable input, and for reporting this issue.

[Guest]

Actually I use MKVToolNix

Take your time to think about it, see if other users have any input, and then its your decision, it is your software that you maintain and improve at no additional costs to the users.
Again, I support whatever your decision will be

[admin]

Possible future, index and demux and at end remux to MKV and use DGIndexNV to give me the start/end points for trimming

Aha, but that does not use the DELAY value, does it? It uses the RANGE in the DGI. Am I mistaken?

You use mkvtoolnix to rip? Or you rip with DVDFab or something and then go for an MKV? That's what I am trying to avoid having to do.

Just want to be clear on what we might be giving up.

[Guest]

I use MKVToolNix to remux the main movie mpls to a MKV at present

Yes, it uses the RANGE in the dgi since the whole file is trimmed, delays not necessary
If Range is out of the picture, I believe that your software is reporting accurately.
If you wish I will test later on today

[admin]

Yes, if you could try my process just to confirm it, that would be great. That said, your way is fine, too, but I think you already said it works fine, and does not require any DELAY reporting.

[admin]

I tried your way and that works, too, but it requires that the file starts with 0 delay. I'll document both ways.

[Guest]

The VLC approach works well, in fact I have used it in the past for special cases

[ggtop]

Hi,

just came across this thread which I'm also interested in, because I had a source lately and I couldn't explain the delay. My question where is this dump file from? How could I create it?

BTW I use MPC to test the delay with NUM + [+] / [-] in 10ms steps. Any advantage to use VLC?

ggtop

[Guest]

Dump file?

[admin]

My question where is this dump file from? How could I create it?

In Settings, enable Log Timestamps before doing Save Project. The timestamps dump file will be created (TS and PS only).

BTW I use MPC to test the delay with NUM + [+] / [-] in 10ms steps. Any advantage to use VLC?

Nope, I just wasn't aware of it. Thanks for pointing it out. 10ms steps is better, and MPC can open AVS scripts. Thanks for pointing it out.

[ggtop]

Dump file?

I meant the file DGDecNV dumps the timestamps into.

[ggtop]

In Settings, enable Log Timestamps before doing Save Project. The timestamps dump file will be created (TS and PS only).

Thank you. Will try this the next days. Do you have a (commandline) tool which analyzes those "easy to find" timestamp mismatches?

Nope, I just wasn't aware of it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Glad I could benefit something you didn't know already Personally I don't like VLC at all...

ggtop

[admin]

Do you have a (commandline) tool which analyzes those "easy to find" timestamp mismatches?

I used to have one but haven't used it in years. Let me see if I can find it. It's possible I had it only on my work computer at the time. I'll post again if I find it.

[ggtop]

Hi Donald,

just dumped the timestamps (only a small part) of the m2ts into a file. I'm not sure how to read it correctly though.
Both video & audio start at 11650. But depending on the DTS and PTS values there could be the delay I'm hearing (~250msec).

Audio PID is 1102.

Thank you for having a quick look.

ggtop

Code: Select all

DGIndexNV Timestamps Dump

frame rate = 23.976024
leading B frames = 0
PCR1001 289155381 [10709 ms]
  V1011 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
  V1011 DTS 1044806 [11608 ms]
	[GOP started]
  V1011 PTS 1056067 [11734 ms]
  V1011 DTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1104 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1105 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1106 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1107 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1108 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1109 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1048560 [11650 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1048635 [11651 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1048710 [11652 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1048785 [11653 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1048860 [11654 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1048935 [11654 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049010 [11655 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049085 [11656 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049160 [11657 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049235 [11658 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049310 [11659 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049385 [11659 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049460 [11660 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049535 [11661 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049610 [11662 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049685 [11663 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049760 [11664 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049835 [11664 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049910 [11665 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1049985 [11666 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050060 [11667 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050135 [11668 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050210 [11669 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050285 [11669 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050360 [11670 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050435 [11671 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050510 [11672 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050585 [11673 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050660 [11674 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050735 [11674 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050810 [11675 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050885 [11676 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1050960 [11677 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051035 [11678 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051110 [11679 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051185 [11679 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051260 [11680 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051335 [11681 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051410 [11682 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1104 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1105 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1106 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1107 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1108 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1109 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1051440 [11682 ms]
  V1011 PTS 1052313 [11692 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051485 [11683 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051560 [11684 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051635 [11684 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051710 [11685 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051785 [11686 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051860 [11687 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1051935 [11688 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052010 [11689 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052085 [11689 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052160 [11690 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052235 [11691 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052310 [11692 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052385 [11693 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052460 [11694 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052535 [11694 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052610 [11695 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052685 [11696 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052760 [11697 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052835 [11698 ms]
PCR1001 291572403 [10798 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052910 [11699 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1052985 [11699 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053060 [11700 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053135 [11701 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053210 [11702 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053285 [11703 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053360 [11704 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053435 [11704 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053510 [11705 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053585 [11706 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053660 [11707 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053735 [11708 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053810 [11709 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053885 [11709 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1053960 [11710 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054035 [11711 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054110 [11712 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054185 [11713 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054260 [11714 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1104 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1105 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1106 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1107 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1108 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1109 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1054320 [11714 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054335 [11714 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054410 [11715 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054485 [11716 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054560 [11717 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054635 [11718 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054710 [11719 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054785 [11719 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054860 [11720 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1054935 [11721 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055010 [11722 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055085 [11723 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055160 [11724 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055235 [11724 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055310 [11725 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055385 [11726 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055460 [11727 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055535 [11728 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055610 [11729 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055685 [11729 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055760 [11730 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055835 [11731 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055910 [11732 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1055985 [11733 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056060 [11734 ms]
  V1011 PTS 1067328 [11859 ms]
  V1011 DTS 1056067 [11734 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056135 [11734 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056210 [11735 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056285 [11736 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056360 [11737 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056435 [11738 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056510 [11739 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056585 [11739 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056660 [11740 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056735 [11741 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056810 [11742 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056885 [11743 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1056960 [11744 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057035 [11744 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057110 [11745 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057185 [11746 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1104 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1105 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1106 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1107 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1108 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1109 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1057200 [11746 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057260 [11747 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057335 [11748 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057410 [11749 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057485 [11749 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057560 [11750 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057635 [11751 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057710 [11752 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057785 [11753 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057860 [11754 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1057935 [11754 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058010 [11755 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058085 [11756 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058160 [11757 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058235 [11758 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058310 [11759 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058385 [11759 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058460 [11760 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058535 [11761 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058610 [11762 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058685 [11763 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058760 [11764 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058835 [11764 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058910 [11765 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1058985 [11766 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059060 [11767 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059135 [11768 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059210 [11769 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059285 [11769 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059360 [11770 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059435 [11771 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059510 [11772 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059585 [11773 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059660 [11774 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059735 [11774 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059810 [11775 ms]
  V1011 PTS 1059821 [11775 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059885 [11776 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1059960 [11777 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060035 [11778 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1104 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1105 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1106 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1107 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1108 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1109 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1060080 [11778 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060110 [11779 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060185 [11779 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060260 [11780 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060335 [11781 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060410 [11782 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060485 [11783 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060560 [11784 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060635 [11784 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060710 [11785 ms]
PCR1001 294002115 [10888 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060785 [11786 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060860 [11787 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1060935 [11788 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061010 [11789 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061085 [11789 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061160 [11790 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061235 [11791 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061310 [11792 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061385 [11793 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061460 [11794 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061535 [11794 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061610 [11795 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061685 [11796 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061760 [11797 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061835 [11798 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061910 [11799 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1061985 [11799 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062060 [11800 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062135 [11801 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062210 [11802 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062285 [11803 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062360 [11804 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062435 [11804 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062510 [11805 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062585 [11806 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062660 [11807 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062735 [11808 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062810 [11809 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062885 [11809 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1104 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1105 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1106 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1107 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1108 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1109 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
  V1011 PTS 1063575 [11817 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1062960 [11810 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063035 [11811 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063110 [11812 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063185 [11813 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063260 [11814 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063335 [11814 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063410 [11815 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063485 [11816 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063560 [11817 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063635 [11818 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063710 [11819 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063785 [11819 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063860 [11820 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1063935 [11821 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064010 [11822 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064085 [11823 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064160 [11824 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064235 [11824 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064310 [11825 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064385 [11826 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064460 [11827 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064535 [11828 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064610 [11829 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064685 [11829 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064760 [11830 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064835 [11831 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064910 [11832 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1064985 [11833 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065060 [11834 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065135 [11834 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065210 [11835 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065285 [11836 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065360 [11837 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065435 [11838 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065510 [11839 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065585 [11839 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065660 [11840 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065735 [11841 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065810 [11842 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1104 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1105 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1106 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1107 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1108 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1109 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1103 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1101 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1102 PTS 1065840 [11842 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065885 [11843 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1065960 [11844 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066035 [11844 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066110 [11845 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066185 [11846 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066260 [11847 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066335 [11848 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066410 [11849 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066485 [11849 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066560 [11850 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066635 [11851 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066710 [11852 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066785 [11853 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066860 [11854 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1066935 [11854 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067010 [11855 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067085 [11856 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067160 [11857 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067235 [11858 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067310 [11859 ms]
  V1011 PTS 1078590 [11984 ms]
  V1011 DTS 1067328 [11859 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067385 [11859 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067460 [11860 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067535 [11861 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067610 [11862 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067685 [11863 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067760 [11864 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067835 [11864 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067910 [11865 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1067985 [11866 ms]
    A1100 PTS 1068060 [11867 ms]

[admin]

Players are supposed to use PTS to determine the presentation time.

The mechanism records the video PTS of the first IDR or I frame of the project range and the PTS of the first audio. Then the difference is reported. The timestamps trace should show the frame type to be fully useful. In your trace, probably the first frame is an IDR, so the delay would be reported as 0. Strange that you would have a large delay.

I don't trust this heuristic mechanism anymore. I've described three ways it can go wrong and there may be more. I'm not very motivated to try to hack it to make it better.

[ggtop]

I'm not very motivated to try to hack it to make it better.

Thank you very much. You already helped me. If was not a request to create an application or functionality anyway. Just wanted to understand it a little better

ggtop

[admin]

I know you weren't asking for anything. I was just trying to make my position clear. If you figure out the source of your unexpected delay please let me know. Thanks.